NZDA Hunting & Wildlife sits down for a Q&A with the Minister for Courts and the Associate Minister of Justice, Hon. Nicole McKee.
Hunting and Wildlife Magazine - Issue 225 - Winter 2024
Could you tell us how you first started with firearms? What were your first experiences getting involved with them?
My first experience with firearms was from being around hunters in Rotorua during my teenage years. At that time, there was a lot of hunting going on in Rotorua. My stepfather was a chef, so many people brought game to our house and to the kitchens where my stepfather cooked. They often had their firearms with them, too. My actual use of firearms did not occur until I met my husband. We have four kids now, but when I started shooting, three of them were under three. I could not play netball during my pregnancies, so full-bore and service-rifle shooting became my new sport.
My first experience at firing a rifle was at Trentham on Seddon Range. I remember the club my husband was in were shooting at 900 yards, and I was asked if I would like to have a go. A friend of my husband offered me a try with her scoped FTR rifle at 900 yards. It was my first time firing a rifle, and I top-scored that day. I really enjoyed it. So, my husband suggested I join him and shoot .303 out at Trentham, too. I got involved in service-rifle competitions, shooting as-issued .303 calibre firearms, firstly at Trentham and then at Kaitoke once the Army shut Trentham down. At the same time, I also got into NRANZ Long Range full-bore target shooting from 300-1000 yards using a third-hand Musgrave in a jacket and sling with aperture sights. We joined the Wellington Branch of NZDA then, too, adding to my husband’s growing family membership.
My son took his first steps on the 900-yard mound at Trentham, and one of my daughters was 11 weeks old when I shot the Ballinger Belt. My kids have all learned to shoot at the Wellington Branch of the NZDA, so my children have well and truly grown up on rifle ranges throughout New Zealand.
What is your current favourite rifle?
That is a big question. I have different favourite rifles for various disciplines, but if I were to pick what my favourite rifle is, it would be my husband's .303 hunting rifle. He has had it since the 1970s. I have shot quite a few deer with it and find it reliable and accurate.
My husband bought me a 7mm-08 a couple of years ago as a new hunting rifle, probably so I would stop using his .303. In all honesty, I have not used it because I keep using his .303. The .303 is still my go-to. It has good balance, is nice and light, and does the job.
What motivated you to focus on changing firearm laws to support recreational hunters, among other groups who lawfully own and use firearms in New Zealand?
Labour's firearm law changes in 2019 affected everybody, not just hunters. Although, in saying that, hunters are a massive part of the licenced-firearms-owning community. I recall when the kids were small, and hubby was studying, the only way we got meat on our table at home was when I went out and hunted for it. We could not afford supermarket meat.
The real motivation came in 2019. I was running my own business, running firearms licencing courses in rural and isolated communities. I realised when the 2019 changes came into effect that they would affect everybody, not just the hunters, as I mentioned, but also target shooters, collectors, pest controllers and so on.
I knew I had to say something and give licenced firearms owners a voice. I was the Secretary for the Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO), and I thought it was important that somebody stood up and said that what Labour was doing wasn’t right. So, that was my first time standing up and speaking out on behalf of licenced firearms owners - and then the rest happened quickly. I was asked to come into politics, and I decided to go all in. Now, I am a Cabinet Minister and have one of the heaviest and most humbling responsibilities I think any licenced firearm owner could have.
How do you balance the needs of recreational hunters with the broader goal of public safety when making policy considerations?
One of the things that has been front of my mind in the different roles I've had in the past is how important it is to get everybody on board. To do this, we need to make sure that only the right people are in possession of firearms. This is why I also place such a strong emphasis on clubs and ranges. I think it is beneficial to learn and practise in an environment with other like-minded people. We learn from other licenced firearm owners who can and will pull you up if they feel you are not adhering to range rules and etiquette or feel you are no longer meeting the fit and proper requirements.
Do you agree that consulting with groups like hunters is critical to making sound and lasting firearms policies?
I believe that consulting with everybody is vital. Hunters make up a massive part of the firearms community. I look forward to my regular meetings with the New Zealand Deerstalkers Association and catch-ups with the Game Animal Council to see what's happening from the eyes and ears on the ground. I think it's essential. But it's not just that community. The firearms community makes up 5% of the voting population. 95% don't know much about firearms. I’m finding that balance around how I can meet the expectations of the 95% who don’t understand the fit and proper regime and show them we are upstanding members of our society, judged and continuously vetted as such. We should celebrate what our volunteers and the hunting community do for conservation rather than chastising them for doing it with firearms. Maintaining a hunter’s role in conservation is essential, and therefore, so is their input.
Can you outline some of the key changes to firearms laws that you're proposing that will support the hunting community?
I have just announced a work programme with four phases. Phase four is the rewrite of the Arms Act. During that rewrite, officials will contact our hunting organisations to ensure that any potential changes are in line with hunters' needs.
I've told you that I'm a hunter, but that does not mean I will presume to have a complete understanding of everything that hunters of all disciplines may need to operate safely and effectively to harvest meat. So, consultation on phase four is important. We need people to submit at that stage, talk about what we may be missing from our new Arms Act, and identify how we can better help them.
How have you, your party and this government engaged with the hunting community to understand their needs and concerns regarding firearm laws?
Since 2020, when I first entered politics, I have travelled the country continuously, speaking in clubs and keeping in contact with representatives from many different disciplines within the firearms community. I will continue to do that. Being in the position of a Minister now, I also have access to specific advisory groups. These are groups like the Firearms Community Advisory Forum (FCAF), the Minister's Arms Advisory Group (MAAG), and the Dealers Group.
Having an opportunity to consult makes sure that what I want to do is beneficial for public safety and valuable for firearm users. To do this means that I must go from town to town and talk to people. I have these targeted groups, and then I have the visits that I do, and I will continue these. If a member can organise a good turnout of people, get in touch with my office, and we can arrange a visit.
Since 2020, I have also held regular meetings with NZDA and GAC to get their perspectives on current legislation, issues, and ideas.
What feedback, if any, have you received from hunters during your time in parliament that has significantly influenced your policy decisions?
The feedback I've received the most recently is regarding clubs and ranges. And I think it's essential from a hunting perspective that hunters have a safe place to go to sight in their rifles. That seems to be the biggest concern that many of them have, probably because clubs and ranges were first and foremost on their mind. People are also concerned about the humane dispatch of animals and the type of firearms that they can use. Again, when we get to phase four, the rewrite of the Arms Act, we need their contributions and submissions. I know they feel that contributing was a waste of time over the last few years, but I encourage people to submit - we have a different Minister now, and we have an opportunity. We have a Minister focusing on public safety and safe firearms use by, for, and to the community to which she belongs.
What are the biggest challenges you face in implementing your changes to firearm laws?
One of my more significant challenges is keeping the general public and the firearms community happy. However, I realise I will not be able to do that - these changes will directly affect nearly a quarter of a million people, so I'm not going to keep everybody happy. For me, the biggest challenge is finding the right balance to assure the 95% of the non-firearms-owning public that their public safety concerns are being met while trying to cater for all the different shooting disciplines. Ultimately, the hunters, the target shooters, and the pest controllers should feel that they are in a better place than they were post-2020, and by the end of this term, they should be.
And how do you address concerns from those who oppose the reform of firearms regulations?
I think it is essential to bring them into the conversation. Their concerns and their views are just as valid as everybody else's. Ultimately, I want them to be present during the legislation. So, that means being able to address those concerns. I can either do that through legislation or discussion. And at the end of the day, public safety will drive the new legislation we aim to put through by the end of this term. The views of the public are valid, but they also must be reasonable if we are to act upon them.
Can you describe the legislative process for implementing the new firearms’ laws and the stages currently underway?
The way that we've worked this is a four-phase process. The first phase is amending the Firearms Prohibition Orders Act, which is currently before the select committee for consultation. The Firearms Prohibition Orders amendments will give police greater powers to search gang members and violent offenders who have a pre-existing firearms prohibition order placed on them. Once implemented, we will start to see real progress in taking illegally held firearms out of the hands of the gangs.
The second phase is amendments to Part 6 of the Arms Act, the clubs and ranges regime, and we announced not long ago that we are going to consult on the proposed changes. This is a targeted consultation process with some of the groups I mentioned earlier. They will back to me by the end of June and let me know their feedback, including any proposals they may have for changes. I will then draft a paper proposing changes and lodge that with the Cabinet, again seeking approval by the end of the year. In the meantime, I am also working on some immediate relief for club officials, and I hope to announce this soon.
Phase three is ongoing. Phase three is about the transfer of administration of the Arms Act from the New Zealand Police to the Ministry of Justice. We have already made some progress with this; however, there are a few issues. Notably, the Arms Act stipulates in several places that only the Minister of Police can sign off on several actions. This means I must collaborate closely with the Minister of Police until full powers are transferred to the Ministry of Justice. We expect to transfer certain aspects of the legislation from the Police to the Ministry of Justice over the term. Some transfer of certain responsibilities has already occurred.
The fourth phase is the rewrite of the Arms Act, which will go through a whole consultation process. If I am lucky enough to get everything through Cabinet in line with my proposed timeframe, the new Act should be implemented or at least passed through all its readings by the end of this term. That is the goal. Ultimately achieving this ambitious goal will all come down to my ability to get agreement to firearms law reform from our coalition partners. If we can do that, then it will happen this term. That is my plan; I am up to it, it’s underway, and I can do it.
How do you address misconceptions about hunters and firearms’ owners in the public sphere?
Communicate effectively and efficiently. One of the things I have learned since I came into this job is how much the public does not know about firearms. I have caught myself a few times in conversations where it becomes clear that while what I think is common knowledge, to a person with no firearms experience, it looks like I am going ‘down the rabbit hole’. We need to convince people by communicating in plain language. We must normalise the safe use of firearms.
Since 2019, Labour and the Greens have led people to believe that those who own firearms are all criminals. Many of the public do not realise the diversity of firearm owners. They come from all walks of life and a variety of professions. We should highlight this as firearms users. We need to normalise legal firearms ownership and demonstrate that we are just ordinary people who enjoy our hobbies and sport. I must admit it gets hard, though, when the bad apples are rotting away in the barrel of golden ones.
What would you like to share directly with our readers about the future of hunting New Zealand and your commitment to supporting them?
I want to acknowledge and thank those who have put their trust in me and placed me in a position where I can try to help our firearms community and alleviate the general public's concerns about firearm use. I hope to bring about measures that make positive changes, both in the public safety space and for the firearm owners.
The message I would like to give everybody is that they should make submissions to select committee as each phase of our firearms laws as they progress through Parliament. I need licenced firearms owners to tell my colleagues and I that I am on the right track and going about things the right way, so that we can make improvements for everybody in this country. And I thank them in advance for doing that.
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